Children

Jehovah’s Witnesses Caught Laughing at Child Rape Accusers

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have the best track record or reputation when it comes to how they handle accusations of child rape.  Below I’m going to attach an audio file of a man, I assume an elder, giving a public discourse, in which he talks about those accusations; you hear him and his audience outright laughing at those who have criticized them for how they ignore accusations of pedophilia.

The YouTube post says it’s from 2005 and refers to the speaker as “Mr. Ellwood,” but keep in mind that I have no way of verifying that information.  In case the file is deleted from YouTube or here for any reason, I’ll transcribe it with my comments, removing some of the excess verbiage:

You saw this thing on television perhaps a year or so ago where somebody got all on television about child abuse and Jehovah’s Witnesses do this and blah blah blah…

Yes, he really did say “blah blah blah” when talking about child abuse and accusations of child rape in particular.

They want us to handle it like they do in the world.  [“The world” refers to anything and anyone not a JW.]  And the world has done some god-awful things to families.  I admit that child abuse is a terrible thing, but the world in their haste and the way they handle justice, they have actually made laws against the family where they cannot come back together. 

Let’s stop for a moment.  The “world’s” way of handling child abuse being described as hasty?  For decades, if not centuries, there was no such thing as the concept of child abuse.  Parents were free to beat or whip their children, and punish or treat them any way they saw fit.  Only in the past few decades have we seen child protective services and other such groups being formed, and even then they needed years to get laws on the books that obligated teachers and doctors to report suspected abuse. (See this website for more information.)

As for families not being able to come back together, these laws are typically applied only to habitual abusers and those who present a serious and tangible danger to children.  This is a bad thing?  Don’t get me wrong; children need discipline, yes, and parents aren’t perfect and sometimes lose their temper, yes, and I would never say that children should be removed from the home over every little incident.  However, these severe cases of child abuse where parents are not allowed to have access to their children permanently may involve broken bones, burns, starvation, or sexual assault, often repeated over the course of months or years.

How do you think a child in that situation feels about a law preventing the abusive adult from coming back into the home?  Chances are they may be relieved that their situation is finally addressed permanently.  This speaker seems to think that a simple time-out is all that’s needed to address the problem of child abuse, and the family can then be reunited with hugs and love and all is fixed.

Continue:

I have had situations where a girl just simply said, “My father touched me.”  Because he was disciplining her you know, and she didn’t like the discipline … So she just went down there and just made up a story.  “He touched me.”  And zoom they come out there on her word and locked him up.  Well now she didn’t contemplate the consequences of all that …  And then when she realized what she had done and had lied about the whole thing she said, “Well you know I made a mistake, he really didn’t do these things.”  And they told her, “Child you better shut up or we will lock you up.”

At this point the audience laughs.  For some reason they think this is funny.

I’d like to pick apart this story, if I may.  Police know they can be sued very easily, so they don’t typically just “zoom” and lock up someone, especially not based on the statement of a child.  They may question someone, even detain them, but “zooming” to lock them up based on a flimsy accusation is unlikely.  Threatening a child with jail time when she tries to recant her story is also very unlikely.

He goes on to say that they “did not right the wrong,” but police cannot just lock up someone and throw away the key.  They need to present their case to a district attorney, and he or she decides if there is enough evidence to go forward; if not, charges are dropped and the person is released.  Police usually have 48-72 hours to do this.  A person also gets a bail hearing where they can ask for the charges to be dismissed due to lack of evidence, and then they get a trial where they can present any evidence on their behalf, including a child trying to recant their story.

Notice, too, that he doesn’t quote a source for this story; he doesn’t say, “CNN reported on this girl who did this…,” but says, “I have had situations…”  Is he a cop, a district attorney, a lawyer?  If this were true, wouldn’t he have the power to do something about this supposed false accusation?  I hate to outright accuse someone of lying, but far too many parts of this story seem completely made up.

Continue:

Okay well these apostates want us to go by the worldly system of things and granted, [with a chuckle] these things they have their way of being handled, but our system works for us.

Your system of handling accusations of child rape should not work for you; it should work to protect innocent children, first and foremost.  The track record Jehovah’s Witnesses have when it comes to pedophiles being hidden and protected in the organization shows that it doesn’t work for anyone but the pedophiles. See the Pedophile category of this site for more information about that.

Continue:

See, the body of faith says that those who are wrongdoers have to have two or three witnesses.  The body of faith says that even if you don’t have the two or three witnesses, according to Matthew chapter 13, the angels are going to collect the wicked ones out who are causing stumbling …

Please see this post to understand his statement about “two or three witnesses.”

Jesus clarified that the illustration he gave in Matthew 13, about the angels collecting out the wicked ones, would be fulfilled at the “end of the system of things.”  This refers to Armageddon, when Jehovah’s Witnesses believe everyone who is not a JW will be killed, and then they (JWs) will live forever in paradise.  They have been predicting this since the late 1800s; they thought it would happen in 1914, then in the early 1900s, then in 1975, then before the end of the 20th century, and so on.  If you’re reading this blog, it still hasn’t happened.

The point is, this speaker seems to imply that children should just tolerate being abused and raped until the end of this system.  For many, that has been their entire lives.

Continue:

So if you don’t want to accept the body of faith, these apostates, go leave us alone, go start your own religion.  Get your own publications, get your own printing press, have your own conventions, have your own congregations, have your own field service, have your own textbook, get your own Insight book, get your pioneers, get your own circuit overseers, leave us alone.

The audience laughs and applauds at this point.

I’m sure I don’t need to explain the obscenity of this discourse, but let me do so anyway.  The idea that someone needs to have their own religion before they can criticize how you hide pedophiles is stupid beyond belief.  When Jerry Sandusky at Penn State University was caught raping little boys, do you think the proper response from them should have been, “Go get your own football team, go get your own university, go get your own textbooks…”?

Should this reasoning be applied to all crimes?  When police go to arrest a man for murdering his business partner, should he tell them, “Hey, go get your own business, go get your own accounting, go get your own secretary.  Leave me alone,”?

This speaker says that people should leave them alone; to do what, rape more children?

Defending the JW practice of requiring a second witness to a crime before taking action is one thing, but laughing out loud and applauding when talking about accusations of child rape is vulgar, immature, obscene, and inexcusable.  There is nothing funny about the situation or about how Jehovah’s Witnesses sweep these accusations under the rug, and callously demand a second witness to the crime of child rape before they take action.  There is nothing here to applaud.

I would like to know if this man was censured or reprimanded in any way for how he turned accusations of child rape, and a public discourse at the Kingdom Hall, into his own personal comedy routine.  I would like to know if this congregation was corrected for their horrific response, or if Jehovah’s Witnesses in general find accusations of child rape to be just that hilarious.

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Here is the audio file:

 

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16 replies »

  1. I’m a Jehovah’s Witness and I totally agree this talk’s logic is completely stupid and disturbing. I am shocked. I have never been a victim of sexual abuse so I do not know first hand what procedures the elders would take but I seriously doubt that this brother’s advice is norm in our society. There is a brother in my congregation who, like 30 years ago, was accused of sexual abuse, yet found ‘not guilty’. While he is still allowed to attend meetings and be part of the congregation, because of the allegation against him, he will never be able to have privleges (no public prayer, talks, etc) in our congregation again. This is just an example (that I have seen personally) that shows the serious attitude JWs have towards sexual abusers. Everything in this recorded talk sounds like his opinion… Not at all bible based. No JW that I know would agree with this… There will always be those grumpy old elders who say offensive things from the podium without really thinking. Why the audience was laughing?? I have no idea except to say this whole thing is screwed up. I remain strong in my faith because I truly believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses have the most accurate understanding of the Bible. Unfortunately Men are so imperfect.. even in this organization.

    • Thank you for your comment Mallory but I would like to point out some errors. Pedophiles are allowed positions of authority, as I bring out in this post; a letter to all elders dated October 2012 stated outright that “it cannot be said in every case” that those who had sexually molested children would never qualify for privileges or authority in the congregation.

      No, JWs do not have a “serious attitude” toward sexual abusers. They have misled the congregation by saying that a “known” child molester cannot have privileges of service, but that letter itself (and others before it) say that the branch office will determine who is considered a “known” child molester. They are referring to how many people know about the incident, not whether or not it actually occurred. As I bring out in this post, they referred to a man going into his stepdaughter’s bedroom and fondling her breasts while she slept as a “minor uncleanness.”

      Note, this information is taken from their own letters from Bethel, not local elders. I really wish you would open your eyes more and not keep thinking that they’re just “imperfect” when they blatantly mislead their members, including you, and refer to molesting a child as something “minor.” I also wish you would do your own research and find out that they really don’t have the most accurate understanding of the bible; start with JWfacts.com and then find out what real bible scholars say about the JW translation of the bible. If you want to follow the bible, you owe it to yourself to do your own research rather than simply accepting the words of men who claim to know the truth.

    • Mallory, I enjoyed hearing your comments, and I am glad you at least could see something wrong with the recording of the talk that was so shameful. From your comments, it seems you are not aware of the MANY other cases of child abuse that have actually been settles “out of court” which IF there was nothing wrong they would not have settled at all, and then there is one major case that went to court, and the abused child, not an adult, WON against the “organization”, and she won MILLIONS of dollars from the HEADQUARTERS of the “organization” NOT just the individual, because the “headquarters” have been sweeping it under the rug and hiding it all.

  2. Yes, this talk makes me see red!!!! All points previously stated…yes!!! It sickens me how they can vilify the victim. As Candice Conti said “Who molests a child with 1 witness, let alone 2”. Really???? I am so sad my 2 adult sons are still in this cult!!!

    • “Jehovah’s Witnesses” are great at subterfuge! Forget about any REAL abuse because of ONE example of a WITNESS girl LYING about her father “touching her”! Add sarcasm of saying “get your own pioneers”, get your own this and that, so you forget about the REAL issue of NOT FOLLOWING CESAR’S LAW, which by the way IS COMMANDED TO DO IN THE BIBLE, and then JUSTIFY that not reporting “Works for us”!

  3. This was a real talk and it seems to have been wide spread…I Remember this specific talk because it was the one that pushed me over the fence to actually leave. The way they reacted to 9/11 put me on the fence and that talk pushed me over. It sickens me everytime I here it.

    • Hi. I’m in Australia so a bit removed from 9/11, just interested to know what they said about it or how they reacted?

      • The August 22, 2002, Awake magazine criticized the Red Cross for collecting donations and blood, since much of the blood actually went unused. (Interesting that they didn’t say it was good that they were prepared to save lives with the blood, just in case it was needed, but simply criticized the fact that it wasn’t needed after all.) The June 22, 2003, Awake talked about coping with tragedy, mentioning Sept. 11 along with other examples, by remembering to blame Satan and not Jehovah, to pray, stay active with Christian activities, read the bible and their other literature, and not overdose on graphic news coverage. The August 22, 2003, Awake gave the example of a young boy who presented a discourse at school about the religion, claiming that they “endeavor to provide distressed people with support after terrible world atrocities, such as September 11,…” The October 22, 2002, Awake criticized other religions holding prayer vigils after Sept. 11.

        The January 8, 2002, Awake has a full spread on how people ran to the Watchtower building. It’s very self-congratulatory, which is odd because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not maintain shelters for the homeless or domestic violence victims of any sort, yet the magazine seems to allude that they’re ready to help with a major tragedy strikes. It says they fed and housed about 70 people who wound up there.

        You can find any of these magazines on their website if you want to read the info first-hand.

  4. This is just a sickening talk full of garbage and sewage.
    1.) YES we want you to handle it like the world. Report child abusers since it is a crime. Don’t protect the abusers. Notify the parents so they can protect their own children. Cooperate with the authorities when it comes to handing over information. GEEZ, is it that hard?!
    2.) The world had done some god-aweful things to family. So have JW’s. And god-aweful is the MOST appropriate adjective to use. The god-aweful things JW’s do to families is completely shun your family just because they messed up and sinned like everyone else, or they chose to believe in something different.
    3.) The world has made laws where the family cannot come back together. I think those are called child protective laws. The JW law is called disfellowshipping.
    4.) “I have had situations (plural, and personal) where a girl simple just said: My father touched me because he was disciplining me. So she made up a story.” If you have had several situations of possible child molestation, there must me some serious issues associated with this man. I would stay away from him.
    5.) They (the justice system) didn’t seek to right the wrong. Neither do JW’s because they leave it in Jehovah’s hands.
    6.) One must start their own bogus religion in order to criticize the JW’s? I don’t think so. An ex member has every right to criticize his former religion. That is what this country is founded on, a country that the JW’s use the same constitution to practice their sick, passive policies that protect the abuser and punishes the abused.

    • 1.) YES we want you to handle it like the world. Report child abusers since it is a crime. Don’t protect the abusers. Notify the parents so they can protect their own children. Cooperate with the authorities when it comes to handing over information. GEEZ, is it that hard?!

      Yes, it is that hard. These beasts are modified. We should all remember that when examining Jahoogie logic..there is none….

  5. They “swooped in” NO they have actual EVIDENCE they have to collect, INVESTIGATIONS that they do and INTERVIEWS that they do. It can take YEARS to “Swoop in”. YOU DO HAVE TO GO BY WORLD STANDARDS!!!!! TAKE CARE OF YOUR PEDOPHILIA PROBLEMS!!!!!!!

  6. “I admit that child abuse is a terrible thing, but the world in their haste and the way they handle justice, they have actually made laws against the family where they cannot come back together.”

    Oh, you mean like disfellowshipping??

    It’s amazing how WT can condemn and villify alleged behavior in others that it views as a “loving arrangement” within its own organization. Kettle meet pot.

    WT keeps families apart for nothing more than one person disagrees with WT policies or doctrines (an “apostate”); the “world” keeps families apart when one member has been convicted in a court of law of raping their children.

    Hardly the same thing, Mr. Ellwood.

    “I admit that child abuse is a terrible thing”

    But not so terrible we [Jehovah’s Witnesses] can’t have a good laugh over it and poke fun at the “world” for wanting to do something about child rapers.

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